catholic conversations

Let's try this again...

2005-06-10T21:04:00.000-05:00

Welcome back. We're going to try a new system this time. This blog has been reconfigured for "members only." It wouldn't have been my first choice, but we were vandalized when comments were open to everyone. I hope this won't restrict anyone from posting, but sadly, it seems to be necessary. I'm not even sure it will ultimately address the problem which we've been experiencing but we'll see.

Perception Is Reality?

2005-05-29T07:57:00.000-05:00

A newspaper article reported on two old Japanese soldiers who had been hiding on an island in the Philippines, unaware that WWII was over. They originally hid because they never got the approval from the Emperor to go home. Imagine living in fear for 60 years, afraid of something that doesn't exist, not knowing all is forgiven and you can just go home. What a metaphor...

Is this what Jesus would do?

2005-05-26T21:11:00.000-05:00

I must admit to being a bit saddened by the events of this past week. This blog was overtaken by a group of ultra-conservative folks who have a view of the Catholic Church which most of us learned and rejected back in the 1950s and 60s. Perhaps there are still many people around who believe in a vengeful God who will send us to hell for our transgressions, but I'm not one of them.

I do feel that conversing with these people can be worthwhile for some, but it's not appropriate for this blog so, for the time being, I've removed the setting which allows comments. What I originally had in mind was intelligent and civil conversation that would explore issues which are unfolding in the Catholic Church of the 21st century. Maybe it is naive to think that this could be the case. But we will try again in a short while and see what happens.

I do feel threatened by people who invade the space of others in an aggressive way. Our conservative visitors not only monopolized the blog but they also vandalized our VOTF NJ website by casting hundreds of ballots on a survey and nullifying all the results. They speak in the name of Jesus and act in a way that Jesus never would. If anyone out there has some encouraging words to offer, please hang onto them. They will be most welcome and appreciated when this blog opens up again.

What constitutes dialogue?

2005-05-25T20:36:00.000-05:00

This blog has been an interesting exercise.

What had started as a place for dialogue has turned into a marketplace for paranoid ideas, vicious ranting, and threats about eternal damnation - all in the name of Jesus!

This is not Catholicism as I understand it, and taking the cue from our bishops, I get to make the rules here. So here they are:

No more posts about hell, fire, punishments, catechisms, the Magisterium and no long scripture quotes. No sermonizing, chastising, criticizing or politicizing. If you have a genuine question or concern that you'd like to share, and would welcome intelligent discussion about it, please feel free to post. If not, please start your own blog.

On Being Divine

2005-05-24T21:05:00.000-05:00

Let's start a new thread here. There seems to be a lot of discomfort out there with the notion of our own divinity. We are not God we cry! That's blasphemy!

Yet we are the body of Christ. No part of the body can exist without the others says St. Paul. We are the light of the world says Jesus. Christ has no body but ours says St. Teresa.

Does God exist outside us? Can there be a God without every part of creation? The traditional view would have God separate from us, but we know that God is among us, that God is alive in our connectedness.

When we look at our kids, we see God alive. When we see the beauties of nature, we feel the breath of God. God is within these wonders of creation. God is living in this crazy conversation that we're having on this blog! As we used to memorize in the Baltimore catechism, "God is everywhere."

So are we not divine? Or is that word so frightening because it conjures up all kinds of responsibilities that we are not ready to take on.

Isn't it just easier to think that God is "out there" calling the shots, and all we have to do is obey? Is it comforting to call ourselves "God's children" because then the parent tells us what's right and wrong and we don't have to figure it out by ourselves?

These are questions - not answers. Let's explore this issue - not give sermons about it.

Okay...Enough....

2005-05-23T17:19:00.000-05:00

I've been thinking a lot about these posts. I have the sense that this is not dialogue, but rather people adamantly stating their points of view with no room for disagreement. We cannot hope to grow if we are not listening.

Long ago, those of us who grew up in the Catholic Church rejected the idea of souls burning in hell. It's not even part of our theology in a literal sense any more. The God of wrath and vindictive punishment is stuff of the past. We know our God is pure love, and that is what we emulate.

I'm taking down the posts which I feel are mean-spirited. This is a place for intelligent conversation - people speaking and listening - and ultimately growing. You're welcome to participate with those parameters in mind.

Is anybody there? Does anybody care?

2005-05-22T16:08:00.000-05:00

Today, I read about a reporter who lost his job with the US Jesuit Conference because he wrote something suggesting that we dialog about homosexuality.

Today, I read on this blog that we all have to obey the catechism or go to hell.

And where is the outcry?

If this church ends up in the hands of Carol, and Seeker of the Way and Myers and their ilk, we will all be responsible.

Abortion...The Catholic Litmus Test

2005-05-21T22:16:00.000-05:00

One of our readers, Paul Hennessey, has asked me to post some thoughts he'd like to share about the abortion question. We welcome comments, but ask again that they be offered in the spirit of healthy dialogue, keeping kindness in mind above all.

Abortion is very much in the news today because of the several bishops who would withhold communion from those politicians who have voted in such a way as to be considered pro-choice. Aside from the politics of it, and the normal revulsion to the procedure, thought should be given to the actual theological status of abortion from a catholic perspective.

First, it is obvious that abortion is the taking of life. But, we must consider what kind of life. Swatting a fly, catching a mouse in the kitchen, or slaughtering a pig are everyday takings of life and are considered perfectly moral. Also, the removal of an appendix or a wart; both living human tissues, raises no issues of morality.

However, for a catholic, the killing of a human person is the killing of a life that has an immortal soul – a soul that was destined by God to spend eternity with Him in heaven. Neither the appendix nor the wart has an immortal soul. So, the next question is: Does the human fetus have an immortal soul, and if so, when does it get it.

Few Catholics would question the presence of the soul in the fetus at advanced stage of development. But, consider the millions of fetuses that are aborted naturally with much sorrow and regret. Is it God’s plan to have an immortal soul in all these fetuses? We don’t really know.

St. Augustine speculated that “ensoulment” took place at about five months. St. Thomas Aquinas felt it maybe three months. The point is that they didn’t know. And today, we still don’t know, because we can’t know. The soul is as much a mystery as is the Sacred Body and Blood at communion. We believe fervently, but knowing is a different thing.

Which brings up the next question: If we, the church, the people of God can’t know the time of ensoulment, how can we, the church, maintain dogmatically that from the moment of conception, we are speaking of a human being with an immortal soul? Is there not room for discussion and perhaps more than a single opinion?

The church has been in error before on matters which they did not know and which they held dogmatically. Consider the question of whether the sun rotates around the earth or visa-versa. Galileo was imprisoned for his thoughts on this, and the church was not only going to deny him communion, but was also ready to burn him at the stake.

We do need to let in some fresh air and have some thoughtful discussions.

PMH
4-14-04

Ban this book?

2005-05-19T21:20:00.000-05:00

Got a brochure today from Ave Maria Press - pretty mainstream. They were advertising a book called God Has No Religion which is a prayer book by an author named Frances Sheridan Goulart (looked up her bio but she doesn't seem to be anything more exotic than a writer, cook and gardener).

Anyway, the title is taken from the words of Mohandas Ghandi. Not a Catholic, but accepted by most as an all-around good guy. So if that's true - about God having no religion - and it sounds reasonable - what's all the fuss about? Shouldn't any path to God be OK?

Let's play nicely boys and girls....

2005-05-19T09:11:00.000-05:00

There will be no name calling on this website. There will be no mean-spirited exchanges. For those of you who are big on rules - those are the rules.

All comments must be posted in a spirit of loving kindness or they will be removed.

reunions of "old folks"

2005-05-16T15:06:00.000-05:00

Went to my high school reunion this weekend (suffice it to say it wasn't my 10th!). Lots of aging baby boomers there - and after exchanging pix of the kids and grandkids, talk turned to the Catholic Church (since this is a Catholic high school that's been around for 150 years!)

Little rage - much apathy, disdain - some concern, especially about the Tom Reese firing - some still working for the church, though not many - very few practicing Catholics among the offspring.

Of course, this isn't a scientific sample. I wonder how typical it is.

Excellent Turnout!

2005-05-12T07:07:00.000-05:00

Filled St. Mark's Lutheran Church last night with a crowd interested in hearing about women's roles in the Catholic Church. There are a number of folks out there taking very courageous steps. They are putting their necks on the line, and may get their heads cut off at the end. But then again, so did many saints and martyrs who did what they believed was right. And of course, there was Jesus.....

Banned!

2005-05-11T11:18:00.000-05:00

Our VOTF group meeting was prohibited from meeting at Loyola Retreat House tonight because Bishop Serratelli decided that our speaker disagreed with Catholic teaching, and somehow he felt he had the right to bar us from church property.

Imagine. Our parents and grandparents came to this country to seek freedom. Their dimes and quarters built every Catholic structure in this country. Now, their children would like to use those buildings to speak freely. And they are banned. Censored. Not allowed.

What irony.

virtue in anonymity

2005-05-09T13:23:00.000-05:00

This blog was set up to allow open dialogue, and for that reason, those who post may do that anonymously. In that way, we can have freer conversation since, unfortunately, healthy interchange without consequences has not been the hallmark of our church.

That said, we've got to stay civil. I understand that some of these subjects make us very passionate, but there has to be a lid on the anger or we're definitely not doing things the Jesus way.

Learning how to have adult conversations can be a real benefit of participating in this blog. We Catholics haven't had a lot of practice.

et tu Jesuits?

2005-05-07T10:19:00.000-05:00

from Newsday....

"The editor of America, an influential Jesuit weekly magazine, has resigned under orders from the Vatican, which threatened to impose a 'board of censors' to oversee the magazine if he stayed."

Has it begun? Is this the start of the orthodox Catholic Church where there is no room for dissent or even discussion? By all accounts, Fr. Thomas Reese, the America editor, had printed both sides of controversial issues, but the fact that he had addressed them at all was unacceptable to church hierarchy.

A board of censors? This was still the USA when last we looked.....

Drifting.....

2005-05-06T09:01:00.000-05:00

You can feel it in the air. The passion is gone; the concern has turned to a general malaise; the commitment has dwindled; the numbers are down.

Even in places that are seemingly successful, it's forced. Catholic high schools were "directed" to send students to the youth rally at Delbarton on Sunday; the few thriving parishes are often cultish, gathering around the personality of one priest, or the philosophy of a religious order.

Where it is headed? We live day to day wondering, feeling very limited in what we can do to affect the outcome. Yet we still try to be of service to those who are on their journey to God. And maybe in the end, that's what's most important.

Unhappy? Find Another Church!

2005-05-03T09:07:00.000-05:00

Is this the new, official Catholic theme? There's no room for dissent here. Obey or find something else to your liking.

Our new Pope has made it clear that he'll be just as happy with a smaller, "purer" church, as have others in positions of authority. Is everybody OK with that? What makes us Catholic anyway?

Black, White or Grey All Over?

2005-05-01T18:19:00.000-05:00

During today's liturgy, we discussed three stories in the news: the bride in Georgia who fled from her wedding and left the groom and 600 guests behind; the woman in the Bronx who unplugged her son from life support; a surrogate mother who gave birth to five babies and refused to take any payment.

I can imagine Jesus in 2005 doing parables about these kinds of stories. And I'll also bet that he wouldn't have condemned any of the people involved. Why do we feel it's so necessary to judge the actions of others? We could discuss these three cases for days and come to no definite conclusions, because we can't be in the hearts of the people involved.

We talk about Absolutism and Relativism, but they're just words. The stories are made up of real people with real lives.

Politics or the Spirit?

2005-04-28T22:23:00.000-05:00

A Time magazine article suggests strongly that the election of Ratzinger as Pope was much more the work of a savvy political machine than the Holy Spirit.

The liberals were simply out-organized by the Curia. "The ease of Ratzinger's victory was proof of just how compact and well prepared the Roman nucleus was," a Cardinal elector told TIME.

The NY Times reported that Ratzinger's brother talks about Josef's wanting to be a cardinal when he was six years old. I suppose there are many types of kids.

Still, it's all somewhat unnerving.

Is there a priest shortage?

2005-04-25T08:26:00.000-05:00

All statistics seem to point to "yes." There are many churches in the US without a resident priest. Those parishes are being administered for the most part by lay people. Our diocese in NJ says there is no shortage of priests here, at least at the present time. One of our readers has commented that there are traditional seminaries which are filled to overflowing with priest candidates.

Is it enough to be satisfied that your own diocese is not having a priest crisis without worrying about those who do? What about the contention that, if we return to more traditional Catholicism, we will attract larger numbers of men who are interested in a more orthodox church? Where have these people been up until now? Are we to believe that they've stayed away because the Catholic Church is too liberal?

Enter Benedict

2005-04-20T19:32:00.000-05:00

So here we are with a new Pope and an opportunity. Those who are progressive may bemoan the fact that Ratzinger was elected, but we must bloom where we are planted, and I think we may be on very fertile soil.

We can take this opportunity to respond, in a definite way, to what Benedict stands for. If we agree, we should actively give him our support. If we disagree, we should make that known. What we shouldn't do is nothing.

Many have found their own ways to be Catholic. We have a small faith community at Loyola Retreat House that meets for Eucharist every first and third Sunday of the month at 5pm. Priests preside. It is a lovely experience where we can pray with like-minded Catholics and share our thoughts during the homily.

There are so many other options which we haven't begun to explore. Yes, this is a place where we can vent, but we can also post our ideas about how to proceed.

Secrets, Secrets, Secrets

2005-04-18T12:47:00.000-05:00

Every time I read something about the Papal Conclave, the word "secret" is mentioned. It's almost as if we can't talk about it without acknowledging that everything about this selection process is not our business.

What does that assume? Are the rest of us not worthy of the discussion that will eventually result in a new Pope for all? What is the reason that this must be such a clandestine affair? If it is only tradition, is it time to find a new one?

PIck a Pope

2005-04-16T16:09:00.000-05:00

Here's a fun and informative survey on Beliefnet. Answer the questions and they'll tell you which "papabile" is closest to your preferences.

http://www.beliefnet.com/section/quiz/index.asp?sectionID=200&surveyID=235

Pope Ratzinger???

2005-04-14T19:16:00.000-05:00

I heard today that Cardinal Ratzinger is thought of very highly among the Cardinals now gathering in Rome. If someone like Ratzinger is elected Pope, would that be a good or bad thing? At least we'd be sure where the church leadership stands.

Poll results released today indicated that 2/3 of American Catholics thought that it was a good idea for JPII to hold such a hard line on traditional Catholic teachings.

Small Faith Communities

2005-04-12T20:21:00.000-05:00

Someone told me today that a number of people in her area are forming small faith communities where they can worship together with like minded Catholics. I wonder if that's what's eventually going to happen - we'll return to the ways of the early church, where Christians gathered in homes, and the only time they started another group was when they couldn't fit in the house anymore.

There's something to be said for a small faith community, as long as we don't fall into the trap of making too many rules about it. That's the model we've learned, but maybe we need to modify it a bit. I can't imagine that Jesus told the people on the Mount where to sit and what they could say and who could say it.

Catholics Fighting Among Themselves

2005-04-10T15:36:00.000-05:00

I read a newspaper account today of a parish in Oregon where a small faith community broke up over differing understandings of what it is to be Catholic. The prevailing attitude of the more traditional Catholics seemed to be, "These are the rules. If you don't like them, leave and find a church where you are more comfortable."

The priest head of Opus Dei said just about the same thing a few years ago. Paraphrased, he said that it would be all right with him if, years down the road, we ended up with only 35,000 "loyal"Catholics (those who did not express dissent). They would then become the core group who would be called to continue the Church.

If we do not believe in everything our government does, are we no longer Americans? And if the church isn't a democracy, then why not? Who made our Popes infallible? Certainly not Jesus.

Will a new Pope make a difference?

2005-04-08T17:35:00.000-05:00

I've talked to more people this week who think that a new Pope won't make one bit of difference. In fact, for all the millions who converged on Vatican City this week, I haven't met anyone who's really been that emotionally involved in the Pope's funeral. Is it just the people I know, or is there an American "disconnect" about the papacy - despite anyone's personal feelings about JPII?

You REALLY are anonymous

2005-04-08T17:31:00.000-05:00

Some folks have asked if their comments are truly anonymous on this blog. The answer is ABSOLUTELY. There is no way to discern anyone's identity if you indicate that you'd like to remain in anonymity. And that's the truth, as Lily Tomlin used to say.

A "Papa" at any price?

2005-04-07T15:01:00.000-05:00

This was posted by someone out there in the Catholic galaxy and I thought it was worth sharing:

"While most Catholics all over the world now live in democracies, deep down, for preconscious psychological reasons, many of them (as people in general do) yearn for the stability and security of a monarchy, preferably one ruled by a benign emperor/father, to accept them and love them and tell them what to do (though they won't in practice pay much attention to that -- remember the World Youth Day escapades?).

There is something in many among us that wants to be a child again and have a "Papa" to cherish and protect us, a "Papa" who can do no wrong, a "Papa" whom we can honor and trust unconditionally -- a leader! The Catholic pope is (alas, for those among us who yearn for a democratic, egalitarian church) a king! The position itself appeals to this inner yearning, the frightened child within us, and, of course, due to his travels, world-wide television, and the Internet, this pope was the first truly, fully visibly, instantly globally accessible pope in the history of the church, and as a medieval monarch in the modern world, his appeal goes far beyond Catholics."

There actually IS a survey!

2005-04-05T07:53:00.000-05:00

For those who expressed an interest in a survey of Catholic attitudes, here is a link for the results of a new one from AP. Unfortunately, the issue of homosexuality doesn't seem to be included in this particular one, but there are others listed. Hope it's helpful.
http://www.ap-ipsosresults.com

John Paul II

2005-04-03T19:29:00.000-05:00

We'll spend the week paying proper homage to JPII - he was a good man and made some significant contributions to the state of our world. His leadership of our church caused problems for many, however, and hopes abound in some Catholic sectors for a new leader with a broader vision.

Of course, that kind of thinking leads us right back to where we began - waiting for someone to give us permission to believe and act in a proscribed "Catholic" way. Do we have any say in that?

One of our priest friends wrote a comment stating that we need to believe in the Nicene Creed in order to be Catholic. "He descended to hell and on the third day he rose again from the dead." Find a hundred Catholics and you'll get a hundred different explanations of that sentence. "I believe in God..." How do we define God? Does the Church tell us how to do that? How can anyone? We humans simply cannot definitively imagine God. It's not within our ability.

It's a worthy question to ask what a new Pope can bring to the table besides permission.

Young People and Creating Change

2005-03-31T08:01:00.000-05:00

Had a conversation with two young women this week who are practicing Catholics. Both had views about homosexuality and women priests which are different from "official" church teaching. I asked why they didn't express their opinions to their pastors. One said she felt "powerless," and the other suggested that, if she did speak her mind, she would no longer be welcome at her parish. She has young children, and she wants them to receive the sacraments at her church, so she doesn't want to alienate those in power.

If the older Catholics are too tired, and the younger Catholics feel either powerless, silenced or apathetic, will the Church ever change? or will it disappear in its present form? or will it become an orthodox community where only those who "obey the rules" are welcome?

And do we sit by and just let it all happen?

The survey says....

2005-03-28T18:19:00.000-05:00

A comment was made that it might be helpful to survey Catholics on their feelings regarding homosexuality and women priests. The writer felt that "This would help me determine where, if at all, I fit in a parish community and the community of lay Catholics at large. Is this a community I can work within as a Christian..."

This brings up the interesting question concerning who or what decides what Catholics think? Do we feel "better" if the majority of Catholics agree with us on controversial matters? Is the Pope's opinion the only one that "counts" eventually, if we are to call ourselves Roman Catholics? Can you still be Catholic and hold the minority opinion, or disagree with the Pope?

Easter and Church

2005-03-27T20:34:00.000-05:00

Well, we had a lovely Easter liturgy at our house this morning. We gathered with some friends, read the scripture for the day, shared some thoughts about the readings, remembered Jesus' Last Supper, and sang a good Easter hymn. It was grace-filled.

I miss the beautiful rituals at church - I truly do. And I miss a parish community. But at what price? Someone made a comment on this blog about like-minded Catholics gathering together in small groups to pray. It seems a nice option for now.

So tomorrow's Easter....

2005-03-26T11:45:00.000-05:00

How do you feel about going to church?

The conversation has begun!

2005-03-25T22:19:00.000-05:00

So glad to see some comments regarding our first post. Interesting that the homosexuality question came up right out of the starting gate. When we had a gay priest as a speaker at one of our meetings, it caused quite a stir.

What is it about this whole issue that seems to arouse so much emotion? There are older priests who resent the number of gay priests in their ranks. There are lay Catholics who cannot abide even the discussion of the topic. There are those who are sympathetic to gays who feel that homosexuals, both in the priesthood and outside it, are discriminated against in the Catholic church. And you never hear this issue discussed in church - even if the priest saying Mass gives every indication of having homosexual tendencies.

Is this the elephant in the living room?

So here are some thoughts to start...

2005-03-21T19:42:00.000-05:00

When the pedophile news first broke, I thought we'd all be outraged, start some good conversation about how it came about, fix the problems and move on to a better church. I joined a reform group and tried to take the first steps to help make that happen.

Well, it didn't go quite the way I expected. Yes, people were outraged, but they seemed to get over it. Many felt that as long as things were OK in their own parishes, they didn't have to worry. Others got very defensive - for the church and their priests - and got angry at those who were hoping to change things.

Now, it's 2005. Where are we? Are people still going to church and feeling the same way about it? Is the crisis over? Where do we go from here, if anywhere? Will the church as we have known it our whole lives retain its identity?

Please share your thoughts. You can do this anonymously and it would be wonderful to hear what you think.